Florida Keys News
Thursday, May 31, 2012
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County rejects big-box store plan

The Monroe County Planning Commission on Wednesday rejected a plan to bring a national chain big-box store and a shopping center to Rockland Key.

Rockland Investment Corp. had asked the county to change its land use rules to allow more retail commercial development on all industrially zoned properties from Summerland Key to Stock Island. The group also wanted an exemption to state Rate of Growth of Ordinance (ROGO) rules, which limit the amount of commercial development.

The request came so the group could sell several pieces of property on Rockland Key to a developer who would turn the land into a shopping center or commercial business center. The land currently houses an adult bookstore, gardening center and tow yard.

County planning staff recommended rejection of the plan. Both staff and the commission wanted more information on traffic, sewer and trash impacts on Rockland Key from development of a retail shopping center. They wanted information on specifics. They also said that exempting such projects from ROGO rules would be inconsistent with the county's Comprehensive Land Use Plan.

Commercial uses are "not consistent with the purpose of the industrial district," said Joe Haberman, a county planner. "We believe there are some fundamental reasons not to approve it. The data they provided is not enough to approve it."

Owen Trepanier, a private planner representing Rockland Investment Corp., argued that the box store and shopping center were needed. Rockland Investment Corp. hired the Key West-based public relations firm The Market Share to conduct a study. The group interviewed 1,300 Lower Keys residents and 80 percent of them "wanted larger scale shopping within a half-hour," Trepanier said.

"There is a dearth in the ability to shop," Trepanier said. "We're not doing this for tourists. We're not doing this for snowbirds. We are doing this for the residents of the Lower Keys." Trepanier related his own story of having to travel to Miami to purchase a brand new baby crib, which was required to be a foster parent.

Rockland Investment Corp. has a "potential buyer" for a series of properties on Rockland Key, but "he" wants to make sure he can develop the property into a box store and retail outlet before buying the land, Trepanier said.

Trepanier could not disclose more details of the project, as they are not known yet, he said. He wanted to focus on changing the land use rules first.

Geiger Key resident Don Riggs, speaking on behalf of the Tamarac Park Property Owners Association, voiced support for a box store and commercial complex on Rockland Key.

He called on the developers to also place a satellite library facility, community center, bus stop and doctors' offices on the property. He argued that the current industrial sites on the property are no longer used and have become unsightly.

Commissioner Denise Werling agreed that the Rockland Key property is "extremely appropriate" for a box store and other retail stores. She referenced the closing of Fast Buck Freddie's and other stores, saying "there are fewer and fewer options."

However, commissioners said there are still too many questions that needed to be answered before they could approve changing land use rules to allow a chain store there.

The Planning Commission only makes recommendations. Trepanier plans to bring the proposal to the County Commission, which has the ultimate say in the matter.

"We will probably tweak a little bit," Trepanier said.

Another group of Rockland Key property owners, Rockland Operations LLC, filed a request last week to change the land use designation on Rockland Key from industrial to mixed-use commercial, which would allow for more retail businesses. County planning staff has yet to fully review the request. Trepanier is also representing that group.

tohara@keysnews.com

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Get over it already

Big boxes are already here. How many of you whiners shop at Home Depot, or Sears, or the hideous Kmart? The fact is we need another alternative to Kmart and Sears. And I'm sure the people who live on Big Coppitt, Cudjoe, Sugarloaf, Summerland etc.. will be happier not having to drive the extra 10 miles to Key West. New businesses bring jobs, whether or not they are part time or full time, it's still employment. Not to mention the added tax revenue to the county. Change is inevitable, and if the "locally owned" businesses want to survive they will have to be more competitive with their pricing.

The owners of the industrial

The owners of the industrial complex are not making great money on their investment. Land is already cleared and being used. The key is unsightly and underused. I have no idea how the adult shop has stayed in business. As long as it has but it has lasted longer than anything else there. I doubt many locals use it. It would be a great idea to see the area cleaned up and used, bu just as others have stated, WalMart is not the answer because of their destructive corporate greed- it will harm the local economy. Not a fan of Kmart or Sears but if WM opens it will most likely drive them out of business. Then we will have no choice but to drive to Rockland. Employees of the box stores we already have will no longer receive fair wages WITH benefits. Next, most likely one of the drug stores in New Town will duck out. Same scenario. Next the mom and pop stores. As the "barely getting by" workforce can either accept a new job with lower pay and no benefits they are in need of more affordable housing or government assisted housing. They are no longer to pay medical bills. They are in need of more government assistance for their kids. Of course WM will gladly teach them all how to apply for these government handouts which they wouldn't need if they were pai a living wage. For the rest of us, our taxes will go up, our already ridiculously expensive hospital will increase rates and the already ridiculously expensive health insurance rates will be raised as well. Essentially, the money we "save" by shopping at WM will come out of our own pockets as we take care of their employees and employees of other businesses they shut out. Unfortunately, capitalism only lets the consumers choose which biz they want by their support or lack thereof after the store is up and running. But it would be nice if the developers really were doing something for us, for the community. Give us smaller box stores that trea employees well with pay and benefits and that would bring something to the Keys. How about a Whole Foods, Target, a nice gym, small corporate restaurant. Heck the locals have been crying for an olive garden (yuck) for years but at least they don't cut their emplyees off the way WM does! Even some of the Truman ideas- assisted living center, waterpark are better than WM.

Bravo

I could not have put it better!

Phoney Racist!

I kept a copy of your racist comment, "I believe those that want a WalMart so desperately ARE the white trash dependents, It's the only explanation". That quote was posted by you on 5/31/2012-8:059-pm. I responded strongly to your comment, but I see that either you or the Key West Citizen removed it, for good reason because I ripped you a new ASSHOLE. YES! You are right, I am a local CONCH, born and raised and a PROUD ONE. You are a phoney, there is only ONE TRUE ORIGINAL "ASTERISK EYES", and I am HIM.

And one that is CLEARLY falsifying your identity when you use my

user name is a scammer. I wish the Citizen would do something about those who use user names of others, use profanity, write using poor grammar, use all caps, poor punctuation and silly punctuation while hiding their identity behind the stolen 5 yr username of another.

While I have no idea what post you mean, you should also know that the word trash is not racist. Nor is the word defendant a racist word. However, it does seem you have a big case of 'big fish, small pond' disease and are fearful of leaving your Bubba buddies for a world that offers all you seem to desire. Your entitlement attitude makes you feel it should all come to you, whether it makes good business sense or whether it benefits the workers. Learning about the real world, about how business operates, education would be a big plus for you. Maybe it's time you moved out of Mom and Dad's house and learned to live on your own?

What I find hilarious is that you have no clue what *.* means.

Jewfish.

You are one BIG JEWFISH.You took it hook, line and ssiinnkkeerr. What a JOKE YOU ARE. You big MULLET.

It appears a few posters just want their WalMart, no matter what

ezinthekeys, Wow, Chris, Faye, for example, don't seem to understand the economics of doing business here, and the impact of some of these big box stores. If they did their homework and saw what some of these stores have done to the local economies of other small towns, they'd not be so quick to ask for cheap goods from China, toxic, infested foods sold in these big box stores, and the slave wages they pay.

What's ironic

about all the anti-big box store people is the fact that those same haters rush to Homestead to shop at Wally World and other wonderful real world stores that we are so lacking here. On top of that, they order from them online as well! Oh I can hear all the false denials, but any idiot knows the truth. The fact that we won't get a decent business here is sad. It would have meant JOBS for hundreds with BENEFITS. It would have also meant jobs that illegal couldn't snatch up! I recently had friends visit and they were astonished and annoyed that there were very few Americans working in businesses in the tourist district.

So, all you living in some kind of lala-paradise delusion, enjoy shopping in your third world stores we have now. You're worried about Key West going down the tubes? Pffffttttt That happened a long, long time ago. Oh and save your insults and pot induced theories. I don't care.

I think you should simply move to Homestead. You have no clue

about the shopping habits of people here. First, I wouldn't be caught dead in WalMart world. There is a great deal of bad energy wrapped in their corporate culture, their made-in-China goods, their low-class, oft- recalled food, the way they treat their employees and how they ride on the backs of taxpayers. You know, don't you, that very few ever have a full time job with WalMart? They keep most under 30 hours a week just so they don't have to pay benefits. And they also keep their employees below poverty-level and then actually counsel their employees to apply for public housing and food stamps and other public programs to make up for what WalMart refuses to pay them. They insist on municipalities and counties giving them tax breaks. That won't happen here. Your pie-in-the-sky view of what comes with WalMart tells me that you've been drinking the WalMart koolaid. I mean, really: "JOBS for hundreds with BENEFITS"?

We try to shop here first. Then if we can't find what we want we go online. I will always vote for quality before I go for cheap and low-class goods. You get what you pay for.

No, you have no clue

You must have plenty of money then. The simple fact is that most working class people cannot afford the overpriced shops downtown. And some of them cannot drive to the mainland to make their purchases. To tell someone who wants to live here, and be able to shop here, to move away shoes just how small minded and petty you are. Why don't you move to Homestead!

I just knew

a delusional pot smoker and nastiest troll here would weigh in on this! LOL I suppose those $5 Old Town stores are more your style. I never mentioned a desire to see Wally World as the big box store of my choice. That my dear is your ASSumption. To elaborate further would be a waste since it's your type of mentality that's the ruin of Key West. Happy strumming your six-string on the sidewalk with your lost shaker of salt.

By the way, I suggest you look up the meaning of words before

you use them in sentences. 'Troll' would not apply to me in any way, shape or form. Here's a definition: "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

My post was NOT Off topic, was not inflammatory (except to those like you who don't have the facts and don't agree with said post) and doesn't disrupt anyone but you, it appears. As a matter of fact, I believe that most cognizant locals feel as I do.

Apparently denial

is not just a river in Eqypt! Har

And CLEARLY you have no clue about me. I don't do drugs.

I find drugs, drunks and any addict disgusting (and that includes tobacco addicts).

It would be your attitude that has begun to ruin Key West. Your desire for chain eateries with massive plates of toxic food aimed at the obese population, and big box stores that put local merchants out of business is what we expect from those who move here and want to make it just like Ohio or wherever they moved from, OR the Conchs that are tiring of Fridays and Outback as their choice for 'fine dining'. Again, it would appear you'd be happier in Homestead. It seems to be very much YOUR style.

I can't figure out which one you are *.* eyes anymore

but I believe the original *.* did ask a pertinent question . what does *.* mean ? personally I don't know but would like to, please respond.

Ooops

"Somebody" went off topic! Must be you're a troll after all, a cognizant one for sure! Temper, temper!

Reading for comprehension. What a great concept!

You should try it sometime, especially when you attempt to read a dictionary.

The shoe fits

buddy. By your own words .... a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages You dish it out but it never seems to apply to you. har

Walmart is evil

If you want to see a lot of vacant stores in our shopping centers and local business people go out of business then put in a Walmart. Also they allow campers and commercial trucks to live in their parking lots for free. We do not need or want this to happen to the Florida Keys. We moved here because they didn't have that mainland lifestyle and traffic here in the keys. Opening a Walmart or Target would end our keys way of life forever. Please say no. If you need this you can move back to Miami or wherever but we like the keys the way they are. Just say no.

"our keys way of life"...

"our keys way of life"... you're not even from here!!!

Funny to read all these

Funny to read all these comments. Just speaks to the average Americans short sighted views. Save a few bucks on your cheap clothes and trinkets while The City of Key West watches the tax base disappear. You will all be the same clowns crying when City Services and employees are cut and your taxes and rents go through the roof. Oh well, you can all wear your $4 made in china shirts to get your food stamps.

i thought we discussed this

i thought we discussed this the other day. so i ask you 666, where's the good jobs that pay a decent wage here in key west??? there aren't any, so what's your answer to bring wages up to a level where people can live a decent lifestyle? if you've got one... please speak up, but so far i don't hear anyone answering that question.

I made some suggestions in

I made some suggestions in our prior exchange. The answer is not easy, but big box stores would make the problem worse. You seem to agree, but then keep posting in support of these stores! For the last time, they pay slave wages, they destroy our Key West Tax Base by putting other places out of business. Walmarts always open just outside of city limits. That way they save taxes and those pesky rules about living wages and benefits some towns have. I am not talking about quant local stores closing, I am talking about Winn Dixie, sears, Kmart, Ross, etc. that tax base impacts city services. Since the city will never lay off the bubba workers, residential property taxes will go up yielding higher rents. As I said before, at least you can wear your 6.99 Walmart shirt to the welfare office! This cycle has benn proven in small towns all over the country. They are called facts, and you might want to pay attention to them before it is too late.

Let's ask you a question. Do you think a job at, say, Walmart

that is less than full time and pays $7.50 per hour and has no benefits to be a good wage? That's what you'll get from a big box store. While it's not a huge amount, most local jobs for those without skills and degrees pay $12 = $18 an hour.

You'll never get great pay for just being a warm body at a store or at a tourist attraction. If you want GREAT pay, you must have a degree and be in a profession where your skills are needed.

What hat

did you pull the BS out of? most local jobs for those without skills and degrees pay $12 = $18 an hour Stick to your big box store job experience and quit fabricating BS.

Well, unless you're working as a dishwasher or a day laborer

I can't imagine what job you're complaining about. 10 years ago when I was with a local company, they paid their shop people $12 - $13 per hour. Dock workers make around $12 per hour once they know their job. I mean, if you have no skills and if the job requires no skills, then it's a minimum wage job. You don't get money just for living long enough and staying in a job long enough. At some point, a job is only worth so much. If you're not willing to go beyond that, or to grow into a better job, it is what it is. I've noticed you're highly excitable. Perhaps you have trouble keeping simple jobs and are then replaced? Maybe that's why you're so upset?

seems to most of us you're

seems to most of us you're the one that's highly excitable! wouldn't it be great if you actually had a clue. i have never said that walmart is the answer, but the answer sure isn't what's been pushed at us for the past 30 years. stagnant wages while massive cost of living increases, corporations moving jobs offshore in the name of more profits for the wealthy, lower taxes for the wealthy claiming they create jobs, which has never happened in our entire history... i could go on and on. i personally have been well educated and been quite successful to the point where i own my own home outright, have great credit and no debt, and have a pretty decent income for the rest of my life. it's narrow minded people that keep spewing out the same montra... lowering taxes for the wealthy creates jobs through investment and/ or "trickle down economics" all the while lowering wages, reducing benefits, and more recently moving those jobs off to some foreign land only never to return. rather than keep bashing people for introducing new ideas or spewing out the same nonsense we've heard for the past 30 years that has led us to where we are now... how about some new ideas? how about learning the facts instead of listening to the same old bull$h!t only 1% of the people truyly believe in. really... when will you come up with some solutions rather than the same old crap???

Temper, temper

You're the one going apeshite with all the false information and your nasty insults. I'm happy as can be with what I have. Apparently you aren't and your rage induced jealousies are very telling. Now why not be a good little punk and stick to the subject at hand. :D

Conch train pays $12 an hour

Conch train pays $12 an hour plus tips. The prior poster is correct. You can easily make $15 an hour or more in dozens of jobs here. Yes, most involve tips or commissions, but they are there and relatively easy to get. You may love the idea of a Walmart here, but thinking it will offer well paying jobs shows you a very misinformed. There is a reason they help their employees get Medicade. Maybe instead of non stop complaining you should get off your butt and go look for a better paying job.

No

I want a big box store for convenience. The jobs are only a plus for the people that need work, not misinformation at all. My job status has nothing to do with anything and have no idea why you're using that unless you have nothing intelligent to offer to this discussion ..... which seems to be the case.

Walmart is an evil entity.

Walmart is an evil entity. They offer Genetically modified foods, guns and chinese and Korean made poisoned goods for our children. Once you see the white trash dependancy that Walmart creates you will then regret your deals with the devil.

Re: redesignation

Local residents need lower priced shopping options. The local K-Mart is pathetic and the Sears store is not much better. Not everyone can afford to shop at places like the former Fast Buck Freddy's and not everyone has the means to drive all the way to Homestead to do their shopping. This plan needs to be approved ASAP.

I suggest you consider a move to Homestead if you can't make

ends meet here.

Walmart is not the answer.

Walmart is not the answer. Walmart purposely tries to ruin competition, lowers wages and hours so they do not need to pay benefits and creates a atmosphere of dependence. Plus does this county realy need discount guns. It is bad enough the pawn shops advertise them.

hey george... where's the

hey george... where's the decent wages now? i'll tell you, nowhere unless you're a city or county employee. wake up pal.

I'd be interested in knowing what your job description is, what

your educational background is, and what you make. Again, if you worked for someone like WalMart, you'd make minimum wage, work part time only and have no benefits.

Key West's pay, while not fabulous, still is far better than pay in most towns for what amounts to unskilled labor. Shop workers, store employees, landscape employees, boating industry employees generally make between $12 per hour and $18 per hour. In most small towns, it's minimum wage.

Many people seem to have the delusional idea that they get raises just for staying in a job and living long enough. Wrong. At some point, the job only requires a certain minimal skill set, so just staying a long time will not be a reason to pay you more.

Good Pay?

Obviously, you are clueless. Try renting a place, paying utilities and buy food on $12/hour.

Really?

Key West's pay, while not fabulous, still is far better than pay in most towns for what amounts to unskilled labor. Shop workers, store employees, landscape employees, boating industry employees generally make between $12 per hour and $18 per hour. In most small towns, it's minimum wage

You are totally off the wall with that BS about the wages here. Clearly you don't live here.

I've lived here 20 years and have worked all types of jobs, and

own my own company. I start employees at $12 per hour and once they know the job and can work independently, it goes to $15. It can go up even more, if there are no problems with the employee.

I have been involved in the past, with the Chamber's job survey. I have relatives in small towns and know the scale of pay, and the cost of living in those towns. Key West has somewhat better pay for jobs that have no real skill involved, and also Key West rents are horribly high compared to most all small rural towns in middle America. It is what it is. If the economy isn't to your liking here, I suggest you try some place up in middle Tennessee and see how it is.

And I've lived

here all my life and it's your ilk that has made KW what it is .... nasty. Now spare us any more fabrications. I could make up a dozen scenarios too if I was off my nut like you.

You might want to get off

You might want to get off this island and see the rest of the world. Living in a small, one horse town all your life is hardly something to brag about.

WANT WALMART!!!!

The County Commission should make this one exception, we need a big store like Walmart since others are closing or being put on the chopping block. There is not many places for residence to shop and Miami is 3+ hours away (depends on construction and traffic), and who wants to do mostly driving for 160 miles? Please put a Walmart in Rockland Key. Target and Marshall's also would be nice if K-mart and Sears happens to close (keeping up with the corporate list of closings), then we wouldn't have to drag ourselves up to the mainland when most of us work 5 to 6 days a week and don't get a vacation.

You really don't

You really don't need a WalMart. They drive local businesses out of town by bullying their suppliers, don't pay competitive wages and frankly they are not good neighbors. Just ask anyone on the main land that lives near one...I'm not rich, but I quit shopping at WalMart many years ago when I found out how they treat their employees...may employees do not get the opportunity to work full time so they do not get any benefits and are told how to file for social services...do we need more people doing that? If you don't believe me, google it...

let's be realistic here

let's be realistic here dimples... who here pays a decent wage never mind any sort of benefits other than the city or county? if these so called local businesses paid a decent wage then it might be another story, but the math you're thinking just doesn't add up. even paying someone $12 an hour for a full time job doesn't earn enough to pay the rent and utilities for just one month never mind trying to buy gas, groceries, or think about takin a day off or having a vacation. you just keep smiling and look cute and let the smarter folks do the thinking!!!

Look

I don't have the answers to everything...I just know that having a WalMart won't help the local economy in the long run. They have never been good neighbors and never will be, until they change the way they do business. Those who own WalMart are the only ones who make any money; kind of like those who own property in Key West and lease it out charging huge rents...the rich get richer. I decided many, many years ago that I would not spend my money helping the owners of WalMart get any richer. And, by the way, no need to get snippy and insulting because I don't agree with your point of view...

WalMart pays minimum wage, not $12 an hour. And they only

hire part-timers. And there are no benefits.

Don't believe everything you're told.

you're so quick to bash wal

you're so quick to bash wal mart... and i'm not saying it's the answer either, but you have no answers how to bring local wages up to a liveable level. we're all still waiting for the oh so wise one *.* to do something other than run his mouth... about non-sense!

Local wages? Give me a specific job and then we can discuss

this. A shop clerk is only going to make so much, EVER because even if they stay there 30 years, it's still a shop clerk with a minimum learning curve. A mate on a boat is only going to make so much because once he's trained, that's it. If they are not able to advance in their field, then the job will be a dead end job.

Let's face it, this is an expensive town. The base wages here are already much more than small towns elsewhere. In a small town where my sister lives, someone doing house cleaning might make $7 an hour. Here they make $20 - $50 per hour. Shop clerks where she lives will never make more than minimum wage. Here I know of some who make $13 per hour. The cost of living is low in that small town, though. Where their average rent is $300 - $500, here it's triple that or more. At some point, you just have to decide if YOU can afford to live in a town such as Key West, with it's own economic personality. Continuously blaming employers is ridiculous. It's up to YOU to make your decisions and then take responsibility for your decisions. Until I see some facts and figures from you, your posts are just vague rants.

AND If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you try to write intelligently, using proper capitalization, punctuation, sentence structure, grammar and spelling. Ellipses used helter-skelter just make you look lame.

yes kiki, he is completely

yes kiki, he is completely dilusional. he obviously doesn't live or work here and is full of crap about owning any sort of business here. the wages he spouts may be from some other far off land, but are by no means anywhere close to being what they are here in key west. i really hate when outsiders comment on our way of life as if they have a clue to what's going on here. this guy impostering as *.* should be removed from our comment section as he is a complete idiot and a fraud. $20 to $50 an hour in key west... bu!!$shit. no one gets paid that, not even the city or county employees which are paid far better than anyone else.

YOU are dellusional!

I have kept out of this because I believe Walmart is evil and I believe they aren't good for the USA. Target I would welcome with giant open arms. That said- do you ever READ the want ads? I run an affordable apartment complex, affordable is 1250.00 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. THAT is a lot of money for an "affordable" apartment. I don't own it, I just run it. Just what job here in the hospitality industry do you think requires "no skills"?? How about the hotels you stay in, you ok with a housekeeper with "No skills" cleaning up after the last ruddy pair that were in that $327.00 a night room? 20-50 dollars an hour---oh yeah...lolol. You better learn more about the people who bust ass here buddy,because she's getting a whole $9.50 for doing 2 rooms or more in that hour! Front desk agents, some start at 12.00, if they are in a corporate setting, these B&B's still have them starting at $10.00 an hour and request they clean rooms too! How about your cashier at Publix? No skills? Guess those eggs are crushed along with your bread everytime you get home eh. Sadly you believe what you're saying and you don't see you are a snob. I'm sorry - but you are a snob who doesn't know or appreciate the plight of your neighbor in the 3x5 mile Island. I take applications for apartments all day long, I receive exact figures from the HR staffing on exactly to the penny what these workers are making,I've been doing this for 7 years now. Before that I was in F&B management in a corporate hotle setting. I KNOW what people are paid- YOU are very misguided. Very, and I am no fan of the smack you are in a debate with either, so please do not think I am taking his side. I just hope you take a minute to really understand what is what out here.
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